First an apology to Yoav Ramati
In the original article, we mistakenly stated that the storm in the city council was due to Yoav Ramati's support for conversion therapy. The members of the city council even attacked him for it. The truth is different. In the clarification conversation we held after the council meeting, Ramati explained his position in detail and it is presented to you, in full:
Yoav Ramati gave a message to Lahi Pa - regarding conversion treatments (treatments designed to change the sexual preference of homosexuals):
If a person wants to do psychological therapy of any kind, that is his right and choice. People choose to do psychological treatments for various reasons to take care of their mind.
Regarding conversion treatments for homosexuals under duress, as hinted in such and other discussions: I oppose this! We in Israel do not decide on any person what he will be and what treatment he will receive. This is not a communist regime and this is not my way.
Regarding the storm of flags in the council, Ramati Lahi here:
As far as I'm concerned, the council should decide whether the council members are allowed to place flags or not. Whatever they decide is acceptable to me. When I entered the council hall I saw that someone had placed the flags of the gay community on all the tables. I checked with the security personnel if there is a permit or prohibition to place flags in the council hall and I received an answer that there is no prohibition. Therefore, as soon as they decided to allow the city council to place the flags of the gay community in front of all the council members' chairs, I went to the car and came back with a shirt showing the family's values and with the Israeli flag, which is my flag, representing me and I waved it, similar to the other flags that were flown in the council.
I did not ask to remove the flags of the gay community and I did not go against them or their words, but I simply waved the Israeli flag.
Regarding the city council members' attacks against him, Yoav Ramati said:
"The "enlightened" members of the council - Dovi Hayon and Sharit Golan tell me that their values are patience and acceptance of the other, but tonight they proved to the public and to me that they have no tolerance for the waving of the Israeli flag.
They are simply hypocritical and show that they are not patient and democratic, as they present themselves. I too am allowed to express an opinion, as are the members of the gay community.
Dovi Hayon and Sharit Golan must know that there are also other opinions and they are: the Torah said that male intercourse is not acceptable in the Torah of Israel. Female-female intercourse is problematic for other reasons and I do not support it either.
As much as LGBT people want to express their opinion, they scream like animals when someone says something different."
And now to the original article about the storm in the Haifa City Council
An uproar at the city council meeting in Haifa following the outburst of council member Ramati who waved the Israeli flag in front of the flags of the gay community which were placed on the table in the city council - the broadcast was stopped • Commentators: Rabbi Dovi Chayon, Naama Lazimi, Shahira Shelbi
Storm and commotion at the city council meeting. City Council member Yossi Shalom was outraged by the step taken by Ramati and received the support of most of the council members who oppose Ramati's views regarding the LGBT community. The live broadcast was stopped.
We will continue and update
Live here Haifa news: City Council member Shahira Shelbi in response to the storm in the City Council
Councilwoman Shahira Shelby: "What happened today in the city council is shameful and disgraceful and also dangerous. The LGBT community has equal rights like any other person and like any other woman who is in this city and people who are in this world. I personally believe in the rights of the LGBT community as human rights and as women's rights. I also believe that we as a city and municipality need to protect this community from the attack they are suffering from. Last week a guy was stabbed and almost killed because of his sexual orientation and because of the racism against this community. A year ago we were stabbed A girl to death at the pride parade in Jerusalem is not an idle threat, it is a real threat. This is harm, this is aggression, this is violence against an entire community and we must not put up with it. What happened today in the city is a warning sign for us to protect the rights of this community and also to actually do things To develop services, to develop centers for this community in order to protect it. This is our job and it is their right."
Haifa news live here: City Council member Naama Lazimi reacts to the storm in the city council
City Council member Naama Lazimi: "What the representative of the Jewish Home, Yoav Ramati, did in the city council is bloodletting for everything. This is what this man expresses, this is what he represents, and I oppose everything he does on this issue. All he does is create hatred, incite hatred, contrary to the Pride Parade that speaks About love and free love, this man talks about hate and he permits people's blood and I can't take part in that and that's why we left the yeshiva."
Live here Haifa news: Uproar following city council member Yoav Ramati
Live here Haifa news: Deputy Mayor Rabbi Dobi Hayon reacts to the storm in the city council
Deputy Mayor Rabbi Dov Hayon: "I think that Yoav Ramati is a dark person, a racist and a homophobe. His place is not in the humane humane society. To go against the gay community and against the small flag of the community which is like their kippah. Like wearing a kippah according to the Halacha is not an obligation, it is a custom and he puts a kippah on his head as I am there to say I am a religious Jew. They have the right to put up their flag to say I belong to the LGBT community, I belong to one community or another. The flag is their cap. What he did is a disgusting, repulsive act, and especially since we celebrate Tisha B'av on Sunday for the destruction of the house he destroyed for gratuitous hatred. That's exactly the man, free hate. Fanatic zealots like him are the sword of the house and the fact is he destroys the house again and again. We must not have such people in our country, this is neither an opinion nor a legitimate opinion and I will go against such people and continue to fight them."
It is very sad that such a dark, homophobic person serves the elected officials. His place is inside a cage in the zoo.
Very balanced communication, what can be said. In the third video from the left, I stopped counting..
I came to confess. I'm an extreme right-winger, at least that's what I'm called. And I confess today: I'm jealous. Jealous of these enlightened council members full of fire and aggression. I envy this ability to express visceral hatred. I envy their genes (today everything is genes, they told me) that in an instant turn them into tigers that are ready to devour in a reflex reaction like her life is under attack. I'm jealous because I ask myself and I don't have a clear answer: Would I have had the same brutality, the same angry shouts, the same raised and threatening hands if I was sitting there and my Arab was Miriam Gadel Palestine demanding the elimination of the Zionist entity and immersed in the blood of my Jewish brothers and sisters (all without distinction)? I'm afraid I wasn't gifted with the same capacity for violence. Another reason to fast on Tisha B'Av.
Look Solomon,
You are indeed extreme. Not because of your ability to respond with violence (which we assume you are personally incapable of as you claim) but because of your opinions. Consider that these opinions of yours are the ones that lead to violent acts.
You said "if I were sitting there and an Arab would raise the flag of Palestine demanding the elimination of the Zionist entity and dipped in the blood of my Jewish brothers and sisters". There were several "problematic" generalizations to say the least:
1. Does every Arab wave the flag of Palestine? Do you even know the Arabs of Haifa?
2. Every Arab who waves the flag of Palestine demands the elimination of the Zionist entity?
3. Is every Arab who demands the elimination of the Zionist entity capable of the violence that resulted in spilled Jewish blood? After all, you admit that you yourself, who hold an extreme national position, are not actually capable of the violence derived from your view....
So what is the problem in your opinion? You are basically saying that this opinion of an Arab waving the flag of Palestine in the midst of the sovereign state of Israel will inevitably lead to the awakening of the national desire to eliminate the Zionist entity, and will inevitably lead to the rise of someone who will commit an act and kill Jews.
Let's assume for a moment that we agree with that. But then you have to say the same about your position as well.
The position you represent will inevitably lead to violence against Arabs waving the flag of Palestine, even if you yourself are unable to resort to this violence.
So actually resorting to violence is somewhat circumstantial in relation to the actual discussion of the guiding moral line.
Look for example here. Marmati, who holds extreme views regarding the LGBT community, views that inevitably lead (and have led in the past) to violence against LGBT people, did not argue in the yeshiva and did not engage in violence (to his credit). Other council members whose names I don't want to use because of my embarrassment, who support the LGBT community, who according to the best of my knowledge hold very moderate views regarding the idea of using violence, used verbal violence and even hinted at physical violence against Harmati.
So what I didn't understand in your claim is do you condemn the violence of the council members towards Harmati or are you jealous of it?
Because some would say that the worst thing in the world is the very possibility of violence. But whoever says this is certainly not worthy to present a personal example to the contrary...
And there are those who will say that it is actually permissible and even necessary to resort to violence against those who speak of violence in order to prevent the violence they speak of, and it seems to me that this is what the quarreling members of the council thought, but then it is impossible to make a claim against your method, which requires acting violently against Arabs who wave the flag of Palestine because This is the only way to prevent violence on their part.
embarrassment. Therefore, personally, it seems to me that, despite the success of Christianity in the Western world, to make non-violence the most important value (as for example in Christianity) would be a mistake, because this is a position that can never be consistent. The correct question in my opinion is, what is the correct morality for which violence must also be resorted to (not taking the law into one's hands, but law enforcement by police officers also requires the use of violence).
In your opinion, the correct morality is the very sanctity of Jewish nationalism. And you are extreme in this.
In my opinion, the correct morality is the sanctity of treating people as human beings. And apparently I'm also extreme in this.
So how do we move forward from here? I do not really know.
Maybe we'll start with you accepting that the problem is complex and that your simplistic opinion regarding Arabs (and I assume regarding LGBT people as well) does not advance this discourse.
Maybe this is another reason for you to fast on Tisha B'Av?
The debate culture in the plenary session of the city council is very unfortunate.
Silence of mouths and inability to express and bring ideas freely.
I am also against homophobia, it is impossible not to rebel against this trend in which my public representatives who are supposed to represent the gay community with respect turn all the supporters of the gay community into dark people with a shallow and angry speech culture.
what?! We are unable to conduct a cultural discussion around the values we believe in?!
You might think we are so afraid of homophobes that we can't even hear them!
I'm sorry but I was not happy to see the banter that was here.
and by the way
I am not one of those who believe that the whole truth is in my pocket. I don't think that just because I have an idea that seems right and just and equal to me, means that all the truth is with me, and anyone who came before me who did not receive the refined intellectual enlightenment that I received is an idiot and dark and racist. There is something to learn even from people who were not convinced of the rightness of my claims.
מציע
How many crazy people there are there Yavardi...
Yoav Sahtein for standing up to the crazy.
They call you dark and they want to cancel your existence when you bring the flag of Israel and talk about normality..
A magical world
Enough for gagging!!! The provocations of the LGBTI people and their attempt to penetrate every reformed place crossed all limits!!!
Yoav Kemati represents the normal - most of us are like that. Enough with the hypocrisy. Enough with trampling the truth!
Only there is a small problem with Yoav Hermati's response!
*There is no such thing* as conversion treatments carried out by psychologists. **There is none**.
The professional psychological authorities have already marked such "treatments" as dangerous for the patient - creating a lot of confusion - to the point of increasing the chance of suicide.
And this is exactly the point - **there are no professional psychological treatments** - the "treatments" are done by rabbis and unqualified people who use brutal methods of brainwashing.
It's enough to pretend like it's an acceptable medical alternative - **it's not** - the medical world clearly says that it's not an acceptable or effective treatment.
It is not clear what you are basing yourself on when you say that there are no emotional treatments that strengthen the straight place of a person interested in it.
"Conversion therapies" is a very broad title for a variety of interventions. When originally this term is directed in relation to coercive and oppressive treatments, the fruit of Christian methods. For the Jewish people, these methods are not acceptable at all.
However, there are many ways that do not oppress a person and do not make his life miserable. And indeed strengthen his place.
In addition, most psychiatrists and biologists believe that the tendency towards gays is not biologically organic. And she wears on a very slight change of something biological but absolutely not something inherent in the person that cannot be considered as something separate from the person himself.
I suggest you check your pseudoscientific statements more closely before you announce a populist internet rant with and website.
All the best to Yoav!
Enough gagging in the name of pluralism!
Theater of the Absurd.
I thought that in Haifa there was a place to express an opinion, apparently the knights of freedom of speech and pluralism did not hear about it - for them, anything that is not total submission to them is fascism and darkness. interesting
Well done, I picked it up. We salute you and strengthen you
Finally the voice of the majority is heard and not the so-called enlightened minority.
For the first time in my life I attended a city council meeting. I am a new/old resident. My friend and I were quite shocked. Not precisely from the storm that arose regarding the benefits. It seems to us more like a market full of noise and chattering tongues. The aesthetic level of some of those present was shameful and disrespectful. In my opinion, those who come should be required to come with respectful clothing. No shorts. slippers The cheapest T-shirts. In short - we were really upset..
The LGBT mob with its problems is pushing itself everywhere. You are fed up!
A little journalistic professionalism...
The discussion began with the placing of pride flags and because of this provocation the mayor refused to come so Ramati responded to the provocation.
Why not show the whole exposition...
A newspaper should report, not cut a story wherever it wants
Agree with every word
Finally it sounds. Thank you for being there to express the voice of the majority of our country's residents. On this island of insanity. Thank you Yoav.
It would have been nice to have a response from the other side - from Ramati
It is unfortunate that there are people like Yoav Harmati hanging around among us at all, and in a place that should be respected like the Haifa City Council.
Well done Samar for the quick collection of responses from some of the council members and their publication!